Open forum question from itstartedwithawindmill:
Hey Scott,I’m hoping you come back to this post to review the questions, because I’ve got a question that really doesn’t get much discussion. There’s a lot of discussion on how to “break in” to Hollywood either by writing spec scripts or working within the industry in another capacity as a writer.
My question is, what role does formal education have toward working as a screenwriter? I’d suspect it is much more relevant for those wishing to work within the industry.
Are there jobs within the industry that traditionally go to screenwriters with an actual college background? If so, which jobs?
Last question first: “Are there jobs within the industry that traditionally go to screenwriters with an actual college background?” Not to my knowledge. That said, most of the screenwriters I know personally or read about have been to college, many to grad school. There are exceptions, of course — Quentin Tarantino, Shane Salerno, Ben Affleck (dropout), Oliver Stone (dropout), Woody Allen (dropout), Paul Thomas Anderson (quit film school at NYU after 2 days) to name a few. But actual screenwriting gigs that are dependent upon a college education? I don’t think so.
[If your plan involves trying to land a gig in the mail room at CAA, my guess is that you would be required to have a college degree.]
But as long as we’re on the subject, let me make two points. First, there has been an almost explosive growth the last decade in colleges offering some sort of programs or courses re film – either full blown film programs or at the very least courses on screenwriting. I don’t have anything other than anecdotal evidence I’ve accumulated in some cursory research about what’s out there, but many of the approaches I hear about are primarily theory oriented. The teachers have zero background working in the entertainment business – they are strictly academics – and the courses themselves are theoretical in nature, too. If you want to work in Hwood, as a rule, I do not believe going that route will be helpful. Much better to find a program, such as the one where I teach — shameless plug — the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where every faculty member in the screenwriting program has worked extensively in Hwood and the courses are a balance of the theoretical and the pragmatic.
Second, it depends upon the student, the school, timing, and so on, but the primary value of a college education could turn out to be more about the networking opportunities than any of the actual stuff you learn in class. Every college that feeds into Hwood – especially the ones with a film school – has their own alumni group. And while schools like USC, UCLA, Northwestern, NYU, and U.T. Austin are the big fish, I’ve heard of strong alumni networks in Hwood from colleges as diverse as Boston U, UVA, Occidental, UNC, Florida State, U. of Michigan, N.C. School of the Arts, and of course, Harvard and Yale. Those connections can be huge – for whatever reason, college grads tend to feel rather affectionate about their alma mater and that generally extends to helping young graduates.
Now speaking personally, I went to college at the University of Virginia where I majored in religious studies, then got an M. Div. at Yale. In one way of looking at those 7 years of education, they had absolutely nothing to do with preparing me for becoming a screenwriter. On the other hand, they had almost everything to do with it. I was introduced to Joseph Campbell as an undergraduate, studying “The Hero With a Thousand Faces” for the first time, learning about the Protagonist’s transformation as typified in The Hero’s Journey. I took several courses re myth and symbolism which has helped me to consider my stories in a broader cultural perspective. In graduate school, I studied source and form criticism which made me aware of various narrative forms. At both UVA and Yale, I was a movie fanatic, a member of some film societies as an undergrad and attending a series of Ingmar Bergman screenings in grad school, exposing me to a wide variety of visual styles. And I was introduced to Carl Jung at Yale, another one of my influences, especially in the work I’ve been doing the last few years on archetypes.
Beyond that, there are two other things that happened to me as a student that helped prep me to become a writer. By my last year at Yale, I had an overwhelming sense that I did not belong there. I had played guitar and written songs since I was 14. While in New Haven, I played in various bands. So I followed my gut and took a year off to pursue a dream of becoming a musician. I played music professionally for several years, which led to a two-year stint doing stand-up comedy, then to screenwriting. Therefore, I think it’s arguable that had I not gone to college and grad school for 7 straight years and gotten rather fried on academics, I never would have hit the road in pursuit of my creative muse.
The other thing is this: I met so many people and had so many experiences in those seven years. I made friends and lost friends, girlfriends included. I met students from all around the world. In grad school, as a student minister, I was involved in a number of baptisms, weddings, and funerals. I counseled parishoners, did hospital visitations, met with shut-ins. And each day, with all of those interactions, I heard stories. Indeed, I think it’s fair to say that I was actually involved in stories, real life events. The accumulation of all that somehow stored inside as memories and feelings. All of that representing a wealth of story material that I have used and continue to use in my writing to this day.
Is is necessary to go to college to acquire life-experiences? No. What is required is to pay attention to what’s going on, be curious about the world around you, the people you meet, the words you hear spoken, the feelings you see being experienced or feel yourself. Because whether a writer goes to college or not, every moment, every interaction, every event is like attending school. The more we pay attention to those moments, the more we feed who we are and can be as writers.
How about you? Did those of you who attended college or perhaps are currently in college feel like what you learned / are learning has been a benefit to your growth as a writer?
I agree with you about college. It may not be necessary, but it won’t hurt.
One thing you didn’t mention that I believe is one of the biggest advantages of college is the writing that is required.
Granted, if you’re an Engineering major, you may not have as many written requirements as a History major, but you will still write – even if it’s not in screenwriting format. You’ll learn how to follow the rules of writing for that discipline and your vocabulary will grow.
I majored in United States Business and Political Relations in the Middle East. I wrote research papers and a thesis for a capstone project. I also had language requirements that helped enlarge my vocabulary – if I counted the different languages I spoke, my vocabulary was nearly 10,000 words (it included being able to say dog in English, Spanish and Persian), but the requirement to figure out how to say something in another language when you didn’t know the actual word was an invaluable learning experience (for instance if you don’t know the word for apple, you describe a red ball that you can eat that comes from a tree). I used what I learned as an Army intelligence officer – and burned out on that pretty quickly.
On the other hand, the Creator and Executive Producer of the CSI Series (a local Las Vegas) dropped out of college, didn’t make it as a stock broker and ran the tram between Treasure Island and The Mirage before he sold a script and then the idea for CSI.
According to him, and almost everyone else I’ve ever heard or read, it’s the desire that keeps you driven until you mastered that 10 years, 10 scripts, or 10,000 hours that is the most critical element in screenwriting.
I also worked as a magician in college doing cocktail parties and the number one rule is practice, practice, practice. It seems to apply to screenwriting as well.
I think I agree with your conclusion, and I tend to fall into similar lines background-wise. I knew from age 8 that I wanted to make movies – and that dream stayed with me, clear as day.
When I graduated high school, though, I intentionally didn't go to film school. I did anything but: I taught preschool kids, went to theology school, traveled, got an undergrad degree in Sociology as well as Children's Studies… And now I'm getting my Master's degree in Child Studies.
Yet I still know that I want to make movies.
I'm not there yet, but that's where I know I'm headed – even if I am taking the long way round.
The thing is, I want to make movies – but even more, I want to have stories to tell, and be able to tell them well. Since the actual form of filmmaking is relatively easy to pick up sans a formal education – provided you put in the hours – I figured that it was much more important to concentrate on finding those stories. And nothing beats being out in the world for that.
Looking back, I see how all of my experiences, every class I took, has played into making me who I am today – in giving me a wealth of stories and insight into humanity to draw on.
Sure, I still haven't gotten as much of it down on film as I'd like to have by now – but I'm getting there. And I'm much more confident now in my own individual voice, and I feel I now have unique stories to tell. I feel like now I'll be able to use the medium well, in a much more meaningful way.
Anyway, thus ends the story.
(Oh, and an addendum: I'd definitely recommend the Social Sciences for an alternative field of study – if you really want a formal education, but not in film. Take classes in Social Psychology, in Cultural Anthropology, in Women's Studies… find out what makes people and societies tick, then write that into your characters. It's a brilliant source of insight.)
@Tom: Your point about the amount of writing is a really good one. I guess it's such an obvious thing, I overlook it, but in thinking back on those years in school, especially in grad school, that's when I really started to learn how to write. I even remember how I nailed written exams by jotting down keep points in the margins, then crafting my answer with a beginning, middle, and end – in essence telling a story. By the time I finished Yale, I had totally aced that process.
@Daniel: If there's one area of study I wish I had spent more time in at college it's cultural anthropology. And interestingly, I've met a number of screenwriters who focused on that in school. So yes, a good recommendation, Daniel.
I would always say that formal education is best. But nowadays with UCLA Ext and Gotham Writers having online programs and the Internet filled with blogs and blogs of info, formal doesn't actually mean classroom.
Screenwriting especially has a "deeper" form than other technical professions so there's only so much you can get directly on the writing part.
And I don't as much believe in learning theory as formulating it as a learning method.
As the writer you have to have the opinion on EVERYTHING. You don't have – before the fact – a stand in for research into some weird chemical, obscure island or women's attitudes during their period.
The more reading you do the more you have to refer to when you write.
I'm a Mechanical Engineer who switched to SW development and now cinema has infected me. I can see why certain people blog constantly as cinema has no end just like the imagination from whence it comes.
I think the stats provided show exactly what many people say is important.
You can't stretch the rules if you don't know them.
I asked this question partly because of my own background. My journey into screenwriting came when a cinematographer thought part of my life would make a good screenplay. We were talking about pond aerators, so it isn't like I was fishing for that response. I actually disagreed and didn't act on this open door until life came along to push me through it.
Having to be prodded into screenwriting makes me feel like a bit of an interloper, but a thankful interloper for having access to so many resources available on the internet. Now I've been bitten by the bug and nothing can stop me now. If or when success comes my way, there will be a bit of guilt at falling into screenwriting by circumstances and not all by great desire or by education.
My own undergraduate degree is International Affairs from Florida State. Jamie Linden (We Are Marshall) attended FSU and decided to stay in LA to try screenwriting after winning $5,000 & a wine cart on The Price is Right.
And thanks for the excellent answer to my question!
Went to NYU for film, but never graduated.
Screenwriting courses there are a mixed bag. Kind of depends on which teachers you wind up with. A lot of the staff there has worked in the film industry though.
I had one screenwriting course that was ace. I saw my writing improve vastly over just one semester. We had to write something new every week and then read it to the class. You get instant feedback and you get to see how you stack up with your peers.
That on-the-spot feedback and seeing how you match up is the most important part I think. That's something you'll never get from reading books and websites. Reading your scenes in a room full of people and hearing their reactions as well as the teacher's is a priceless experience. And then hearing your classmates' scenes and giving them feedback is just as valuable.
NYU is really expensive though.
I received a screen writing job to do a re-write based on my first half completed script.
As I dug into the rewrite I was appalled at how poorly it was written. The hapless scribe that attempted to write it was a collage student. I do not know how far in collage, but I knew their writing sucked and I have never taken a collage class in my life.
I learned everything I know (which isn't much, but must be good enough to land some more writing gigs) from the internet and reading many books on how to write. Reading scripts from box office smash hits also helps in learning how to put a story together. I learned that there are two parts to writing a script. One is the proper format, the key to even get someone to accept your script, is it formated to industry specs? That also means how many pages does it include.
Second is the meat of the story or plot, storyline etc. Anybody can tell a story, some are just better than others on how they tell it.
Is formal education "collage credits" or learning everything you can, any way you can, on the subject needed?
Often, it isn't always what you know, but who you know in Hollywood.